What does alcedine mean to you?

[khiemtran]

Part of the work of creating a setting is finding a vocabulary to describe it. There's a Chinese word cui that can mean either "kingfisher" or "emerald-green" (I'm not sure whether Chinese kingfishers actually are emerald green or if these are two completely different meanings).

It gets used in some quite famous poems, in contexts that seem to imply that it means "green". However the translations I've seen often seem to prefer the more poetic "kingfisher-green" or "alcedine" (based on the scientific name for kingfishers). "Alcedine bamboo" does have a nice exotic ring to it (see below), but I'm not sure the phrase itself has any meaning in English. "Kingfisher-green bamboo" is a bit more obvious, and still quite colourful. "Emerald bamboo" is a bit plain.

So, if I talked about "alcedine bamboo" or "alcedine rock" when describing a setting, would you know what it meant? (And, more subtly, would it matter?)

Here's an example from Du Fu (one of my favourite poets).

A Madman

West from Myriad League Bridge stands a Hall of Thatch;
Waters of Hundred Flower Tarn are my Waves of Watchet.
Wind enfolds alcedine bamboo, bright & gracefully pure;
Rains ablute pink lotuses, slow and gradually fragrant.
From amply salaried old friends, all letters curtailed;
My ever famished young sons -- your complexions pallid.
About to be tossed into a ditch, just be unrestrained--
I laugh at myself -- a madman, the older the madder.

Comments

[ritaxis.livejournal.com]

If I had come across it cold I would not know what it meant, but i would surmise that it meant something like you've described (on the basis that if you meant arsenic green or celadon green or olive green or leaf green or lime green or sea green or avocado green or blue-green, you would have said so). It sounds like it's a cooler green than viridian.

More importantly, I think it would not matter, because the sound evokes something brilliant and disturbing, which is what I think you mean.

[khiemtran.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I'm still trying to work out what palette of words I can for this setting. I've decided that inventing a fake Chinese is out, and using modern Chinese is a little fraught, so I've been looking at English translations of Chinese poems.

[bemused-leftist.livejournal.com]

To me 'alcedine bamboo' sounds scientific and unappealing. It might be a Latin botanical variety. It might have a metallic taste. I wouldn't guess it to be a color. If someone told me it was a color, I couldn't guess from the word what color it was.

But then, there are other bits of the poem I don't care for either. So maybe I'm not much loss.

[khiemtran.livejournal.com]

Thanks! Actually, I'm even sure it is a colour in normal usage.

[caper-est.livejournal.com]

It smells a bit of the lamp to me - though it fits well in the poem you quote, which both uses and varies that academic style of diction to effect. It's not one I'd be likely to use, and I'd certainly have had to look it up if you hadn't explained it.

I might use 'halcyon bamboo' or 'halcyon-green rock', though - and I'd certainly understand them. It's easy to imagine what a kingfisher green would be, even without having seen it.

[khiemtran.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I think I'm leaning back towards "kingfisher-green" now, although halcyon is a great suggestion. I'm going to need a few different registers anyway, for the usual cast of suspects...

[heleninwales.livejournal.com]

I like kingfisher-green. The normal adjective is kingfisher-blue, but if you look at the photo top right on this page, the bird is showing a gorgeous iridescent green.

[heleninwales.livejournal.com]

Sadly I too would have no idea what alcedine meant without looking it up, and as I prefer to glean the meaning of new words from context if possible, I'd probably just let it glide by unless it came up repeatedly.

[khiemtran.livejournal.com]

That's roughly what I did when I first saw it. It was only when I looked up the original characters that I worked out the dual reference. It looks like I'm sold on kingfisher-green for this one though...